Scaling Smarter: Dan Zimmerman’s Lessons in Laundromat Automation and Expansion

Dan Zimmerman (00:00)

I'm really curious about that. think that it's kind of a big miss at a lot of laundromats right now because they struggle to manage wash, dry, fold on their own.

when we bought these two stores they're my first two stores the we collected

about 60 % more than what hit the financials that he provided, right? So I thought it was a good number.

Sukanth (00:22)

But then that would

So hi Dan, this is Sukanth. think I've had a conversation with you multiple times on phone. I've never seen you. But thanks. Thanks for joining us. When Keertana and I wanted to talk to operators that we feel that would be

would be our customers and would be able to add some value to our community, our other operators. Learn from where you are probably gives us a lot of feedback. So you were one of the first few names that came to my mind because you are one of the very few people that I know have their numbers down to a T. You understand what your team does to a T. Like a lot of people that I'm just starting off, a lot of people that I talk to on a regular basis usually are not at their bottom.

Dan Zimmerman (00:57)

You

Sukanth (01:11)

Managers are at the laundromat. They're telling me that their manager is unhappy and all that stuff You're usually the guy whom I talk to when when the team is unhappy So you're the person that I thought you should start off with So just starting why? It is like 100 % like I I am a firm believer that Business is a great opportunity, but you have to do the business like nobody does it for you. It's it's a lot of people feel passive, but

Dan Zimmerman (01:24)

I appreciate that. That's a compliment. Thank you.

Sukanth (01:41)

I genuinely believe even in passive you have to do the business. Something is always active and I would say Dan is always active at the end of the day. starting off, where did you start? Why are you here? Why Laudromat? I am pretty sure you would be making tons of money in almost all the businesses that you would try to do because you are so active in it.

Dan Zimmerman (01:49)

I'm

Um, you know, I'm happy to tell this story. I don't know how far back you want me to go. I think the best starting

Sukanth (02:09)

The ones

that you feel are like truly captures the story. We have enough time and I love to talk, I love to learn, I love to understand. Like it gives you an opportunity to understand what we could do in life. So why not? Why not for sure?

Dan Zimmerman (02:21)

Yeah.

Well, I mean, we, I'm not going to say that we got in this business on accident because that's not true. but I got into it with very little knowledge of the laundry business, overall, you know, we have our, I've talked about it with you before. have our.

our property management company and we manage long-term rentals, is primarily apartment buildings and houses. And then we have another portion of our property management businesses, our Airbnbs or our short-term rentals. And we had a laundry problem. we had somewhere around 40 short-term rental units and some of these houses sleep 16 people. So there's a lot of beds. over across 40 units, we might have

Sukanth (03:00)

me.

Dan Zimmerman (03:04)

I don't know 150 beds or something like that, but it ends up being a lot of laundry and We wanted to do something that was going to be a little more efficient for the housekeepers So, you know, it's not realistic for the housekeepers to wash all the linens for you know Nine beds within a four-hour time frame. They're just not going to be able to do it

Sukanth (03:06)

Understood.

Dan Zimmerman (03:26)

So we, we looked, we, I met another laundry owner, met him at his store. It was in a location that was kind of centralized for all of the properties we manage.

Sukanth (03:34)

Hmm.

Dan Zimmerman (03:36)

And we kind of made a deal where, you know, our housekeepers are going to be bringing laundry down here every single day. That's where they're going to start their day by picking up the clean linens from the laundromat and dropping them off at the end of the day. So makes it easy for the laundromat owner operator because, you know, they don't have to worry about pick up and drop off or managing that and all they have to do is the laundry. Further, you know, we separate all of our laundry by property. Each bag has

a tag each tag has the address so we know exactly where it came from and where it's going so they could not keep our laundry organized they were losing stuff getting stuff mixed up stuff going missing

I just, don't know what the deal was with this laundromat operator, but we just weren't having a good experience with the washing fold. We tried to resolve it with them. And I just looked at my business partner on the management business. I was like, we, just have to buy a laundromat. I was like, let's look at some laundromats. I'll make the calls. So that's kind how it started. We were just trying to solve this laundry problem. Didn't have, you know, obviously acquiring more real estate.

and another business is exciting to me, but I just didn't really know anything about the laundry business.

Sukanth (04:56)

Yeah like going from

a rental business to a laundry business like a lot of people do this like because I genuinely feel that is because you guys have the most capability to find the best locations you have a genuine understanding of the location you probably understand more from a layman perspective where the location should be but the fun part here is this is not the skill that you required here because your laundromat is not probably very open to the public because you already are self-consumed to an extent like

Dan Zimmerman (05:25)

Yeah.

Sukanth (05:25)

In this short rental space has grown in last few years or have you seen like a sustained growth like has this been a long term problem like when you started off in this short term real estate ecosystem how different is laundry from it like were you gung-ho to go into it or were you like okay this might be a problem also not just acquiring a business but running it making sure there is no

hanky panky or going on into the stuff there is machine, many fact machine maintenance has to be taken care of there are new parameters and things that come in into this ecosystem so were you like very gung-ho to go in or were you like okay let's look it out and what was your way to avoid these kind of blockades like to go pass through these ecosystems problems

Dan Zimmerman (05:56)

⁓

Well, I think I can talk about, you know, the acquisition of our first two stores and our first 12 months of operating. And I think that'll kind of answer the questions that you have there. You know, when we, when I, when I cold called this guy to ask him if he would sell his laundromats, you know, some people were just.

Sukanth (06:29)

You are the

cold calling success. So I think this is one thing that a lot of people should just know. That yeah, you can just call somebody and get their business in. You don't need heavy brokers.

Dan Zimmerman (06:41)

I think one of my superpowers is that I can talk to people and they like me instantly. It's true most of the time, it's, you know, I don't have...

Sukanth (06:46)

Yes.

Dan Zimmerman (06:50)

lot of reason for that because when you talk to somebody you don't know, mean, there's some people that, you know, just they don't want to trust that person or talk to that person. But for some reason, when I cold call off market property owners, you know, I think I don't know if it's the tone of my voice or just the way that I speak to them, but they don't mind talking to me. And, um,

You know, I cold called this guy and asked him if he was interested in selling his stores. And he said I could be interested in that, yes. And keep in mind that I made two phone calls. that's it. So.

Sukanth (07:22)

You're making it look too difficult for everybody else who's trying out there. If you would see, there are so many posts, everybody's crying, where do I buy this? There are people spending thousands of dollars just trying to understand what a good location is.

Dan Zimmerman (07:37)

Yeah, mean

location, I mean I've kind of joined the laundromat groups and kind of figured out the basic metrics there. Obviously, you know, density of apartments within, you know, a one to two mile radius is important. And I,

I have real estate connections there. So I pulled a Coat Star report. There's 6,000 apartments within a one mile radius of these stores. And we manage a lot of apartments in the property management company in those neighborhoods. I mean, was all...

Sukanth (08:07)

One of the things that I've seen a lot

of property management groups and since I'm part of PayRange now, so I get to see this, is they go gang ho on laundry rooms. why go towards a full service? Why not just like a lot of property groups do, just put in laundry rooms? Is that a good thing according to you? Was that an idea ever?

Dan Zimmerman (08:27)

So we do put in laundry rooms at pretty much all of our multifamily stuff. We do, and I know lots of other people do in those areas. The problem is the customer base in those areas, it's a lot of Latino families. They're big families, a lot of kids. These laundry rooms and these apartment buildings, these property owners.

They don't spend a lot of money on the laundry facility. They might have one or two sets of top load machines. And if you have a family with four kids, a mom and dad, it takes them an entire day.

Sukanth (09:00)

My

experience with laundry rooms is they half broken all the time. Laundromats are 25 % broken all the time but laundry rooms are like 50 % of the time broken.

Dan Zimmerman (09:04)

Yeah

Yeah, well just the equipment's small, takes them all day to do their laundry. It's usually a dirty room. The machines break down. The property owners never fix them. So yes, agree with you. It's a problem. So yeah, these Class B, Class C multifamily assets that have laundry rooms are just usually not that great. you know, our laundromat being around all these apartment buildings, you know, it works for people.

Sukanth (09:22)

you

Dan Zimmerman (09:37)

When we bought these laundromats, all of the equipment in them was about 20 years old. And when you have equipment that's old, I'm basically going to the store every single day. And the stores were both 100 % cash as well. So I have to make sure all the quarters are in the change machines. I have to make sure the cash is out of the store. I got to make sure all the machines work. So it was like an... Yeah.

Sukanth (09:43)

Hmm.

Yeah.

I have a question, like I have one.

So now since you mentioned and I'm curious, it's all cash store. How do you bid for this? How do you even negotiate? How do you know how much of it is true? How much of it is padded up? How do you verify? Like did you do all this stuff?

Dan Zimmerman (10:17)

Did I verify like the financials?

Sukanth (10:19)

income

like are you like it's 20 year old machines you just purely kind of sort of buying the business which is purely cash so very untrackable untraceable not that easy to map out so how did you get past this roadblock of negotiating for this property like putting the right value getting him to accept

Dan Zimmerman (10:40)

So when I bought the business and the real estate, I required that the seller provide me with five years of financials and tax returns.

Sukanth (10:48)

Hmm.

Dan Zimmerman (10:51)

thought anything looked weird on those maybe I would have required him to give me some bank statements but everything looked good you know even better you know this particular seller wasn't reporting all of the income so when we bought these two stores they're my first two stores the we collected

about 60 % more than what hit the financials that he provided, right? So I thought it was a good number.

Sukanth (11:15)

But then that would

he lowballed, right? Like he's, he I think got out cheap, like just asking, like I'm not saying this, but this would mean he lost money on the deal, right? Like there was money on the table that he lost to an extent.

Dan Zimmerman (11:29)

I would say so. But he would have the same problem with another buyer, but maybe somebody that really understood laundromats and had a due diligence period, were they able to verify the income for a month or a couple of weeks or whatever would be able to figure that out.

Sukanth (11:30)

Hmm.

Because I'll tell

you, I have customers who bought stores and then the real revenue came out to be 50 % of what the store was looking like and they were so excited, there was millions of dollars pumped in and then they're stuck man. Like I genuinely have no idea how do you get out of the problem when you make such deals. But yeah, that's why I get like this is so how and now in now let's get to today. So

you got into these properties that guy has been out like what did he want to go out like was he owning this for a long period of time was he tired what happened there like what what what was the motivation

Dan Zimmerman (12:24)

So he was a speed queen employee for a long time and I don't remember exactly how he got his first store, but he acquired his first store He is a do-it-yourself or kind of guy blue collar guy So he you know he and he worked on the machines all the time anyway So for him to build a store with some mechanical background like wasn't a big deal So he acquired a store

I he bought the real estate and then he built the store and you know, he probably financed the equipment either through the manufacturer or the bank but he figured it out and then he got a second store and He owned everything free and clear He Because there was everything was cash and very hands-on You know, he just he spent you know anywhere from five to eight hours a day at these laundromats for the last 20 years

Sukanth (13:17)

That's a full-time job. Like, it's like a, yeah.

Dan Zimmerman (13:20)

Yeah, so you know I have put probably into those two stores are about 2,000 square feet apiece we put Right about nine hundred thousand into them last year. So we now we have all brand new equipment We have a nice loyalty card system. We got new epoxy floors new paint new light fixtures You know the stores look good. They're clean

the laundry ladies that we have working at this stores, they love coming to work. Our customers appreciate it. We increase the wash capacity, the dry capacity of the stores. The newer machines are more efficient energy-wise. So there's a lot of benefits. we went from spending six grand a month for repairs to zero. So, well.

Sukanth (14:06)

Wow! 6 grand a month for repairs!

Dan Zimmerman (14:09)

I my repair guy, I gave him the keys to the store and I said I want you to come here at least every other day if not every day and if you see anything that's broken because stuff was breaking every day it was just a big problem and he was great because he came every other day anything and everything that was broken he fixed he did a real nice job of maintaining our stores and we ran it that way for 12 months with the 20 year old equipment and I went down there every day and I was like I'm not doing this anymore we're getting new equipment we're gonna

Or could have...

Sukanth (14:38)

So now this place. So for the first

12 months was the right good or very bumpy like what did you feel like this is the right I have you put the money in the right place because I'm pretty sure you're very diligent very smart so for the first month this would have been a honeymoon period you knew you got a sexy deal like you got a great deal but then the machines are breaking $6,000 a month just on repairs is heartbreaking for me to hear like I can understand that would be a big pain

Were you doubtful at any point of time during that 12 month phase like what's going on man? Do I need to put a lot of money into the store? Where is it going? Should I flip or what?

Dan Zimmerman (15:17)

Well, you know, when I look at, mean, we keep pretty up to date and financials. mean, they're not, they're pretty close to being live. Like all income, all expenses were being reported weekly by my business partner.

in program similar to QuickBooks. So I was looking at the financials a lot. when every day the bank account is positive, and we are spending a lot of money, but it's on things that are absolutely necessary for the business to keep rolling, I wasn't too worried about it. I mean, as long as our account balance is going up, then we're doing something right. And so the first six months was a lot of learning.

The second six months was basically me planning ahead and deciding what we're going to change in the future. 12 months in, that's when we shut the stores down for two weeks and remodeled them and put in all the new equipment.

Sukanth (16:11)

Hmm and so next question, how did you decide what machines there are so many of them like why this why and I don't want you to name any distributors or any like I don't I'm not that type like I am not trying to push any A or B but I'm just trying to understand there is tons of discussion about this also why why did you choose A and why did you not choose B what happened there

Dan Zimmerman (16:17)

Ahem.

Yeah.

Well, it's hard for me to answer that question without telling you what brand we went with. Yeah. Yeah, right.

Sukanth (16:38)

No like I am just saying we are not pushing anything. I am not saying buy speed queen

or buy hibash neither I am saying don't buy them but what happened in your case?

Dan Zimmerman (16:48)

So we had Speed Queen at the store currently and we have a lot of Speed Queen machines at our apartment buildings. I they're known for being a good brand and I really like Speed Queen. You know I talked to the Speed Queen rep, we had him price out all the equipment and I was just trying to get an understanding of like what this stuff costs and you know.

shocking how much laundry equipment is right but I didn't go with Speed Queen I evaluated several other brands

there was another brand called Dexter. in Nebraska. Dexter is in our neighboring state. So Dexter is manufactured in Iowa, which is close to home. I like that. They've been in business for 120 years. I took a tour of their manufacturing facility and I was thoroughly impressed.

Sukanth (17:32)

Yes.

Mmm.

Dan Zimmerman (17:39)

I could go on and on on about that, but I'll just tell you I was sold on their product. I priced multiple brands. I went with Dexter and it was a good fit.

Sukanth (17:49)

Like, did you want to try and go to their manufacturing setup or did they invite you? Like, how was that done?

Dan Zimmerman (17:56)

I

asked them. I asked them for it.

Sukanth (18:00)

Just genuinely asking, like was it really important for you? what would have made it even better? Like if the speed queen would have guy would have told you to come to his manufacturing unit too, what would you have made the decision with then?

Hmm.

Dan Zimmerman (18:15)

I guess to clarify, shouldn't make it sound like I went to, I didn't go through their manufacturing facility before I bought the equipment. I bought the equipment and then I asked for it. was like, Hey, I would, know that you guys have this big manufacturing facility over there in Iowa. I would like to come see it. And they said, absolutely. And they, got to meet, you know, it's a employee owned business. So I got to meet the owners. it was, I don't know, it just a cool experience.

Sukanth (18:37)

Yes.

It's great like a manufacturer

opens up to their operators, it's rare and it's good like it should happen probably even more and more. There should be probably tours done like I see so many operators having tours like there's I come from India so I when I came to Tennessee and Nashville for the first time there is like a Jim beam tour which they have.

Dan Zimmerman (18:47)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Sukanth (19:00)

would be

very open to have these kind of things to be done by the manufacturers probably would align a lot of their customers and future operators with them to an extent.

Dan Zimmerman (19:09)

Yeah, I mean I was a mechanic for 15 years so you know I got a very blue collar background so like I of know how things are put together and how they're built you know and I appreciate that stuff so for me going to the factory was like a really cool experience on top of that it's close to home and like it's just a bunch of farm boys that work their butts off like it's great.

Sukanth (19:13)

You

Yeah, then let's say in 12 months, do you have employees? Like at 12 month period, how many employees were there in the store at that point of time? How was it going with them? Like, did you carry over the employees? Were there employees in the first place? What happened there?

Dan Zimmerman (19:47)

So when we bought the stores, was a lady, her name's Sandy, she had been working in the store doing wash and fold and helping the previous owner. I can't remember how long, it was maybe 10, 15 years, maybe longer.

But she loved the laundromat. She just always loved it. She's worked there for long time. And I told her, you know, we actually want you to work, because she was kind of working part time. I was like, well, we want to pay you more money and we want you to work more hours. And we are going to do, I was telling her about, you know, our wash and fold business with our short-term rentals. And I think she was a little skeptical. She even told me, I think a year after.

We were in the business that she was considering leaving when we bought it, because she was really unsure about us. But she absolutely loves it. So she's been kind of like the centerpiece or the main person for our wash dry fold business. And then we've added two more people at that location. So we have three people that help keep the store clean, help our customers, and manage the wash dry fold.

Sukanth (20:55)

understood and that's across two locations or like a single location.

Dan Zimmerman (20:59)

So the other location is a slightly smaller store but same amount of equipment. We don't have room there to do wash dry fold and it's close enough to the other store that we can kind of keep a close eye on it but we don't have it's an unmanned store.

Sukanth (21:14)

unattended like an unattended

so how is your experience with the like now you have both of them how do you feel like is the unattended one better or is the attended one because obviously attended one will have more revenue more expenses more risk or how do you feel since you own both

Dan Zimmerman (21:31)

So you would think that the attended store would likely, even though they have the same amount of sheens, would likely have more self-service laundry income from the customers because they probably like having somebody that they can talk to to help them or what have you.

And my experience, our Unmanned store generates more monthly income than the store that has our laundry ladies. they're really nice ladies. They're not scaring people off. just, it's just, I don't know. They're very similar location. They're very similar.

Sukanth (22:03)

get good

surprises everywhere most of the people are struggling with their self-serve income you actually pay poor money yeah a lot of people would be super jealous of your positions to be honest but yeah that's that's I genuinely feel that laundromat guys like first of all it's a type like

Every guy on the street doesn't want to have a laundromat. I genuinely feel like I come from a mechanical engineering background. So I was comfortable around machines all my life and I find them fun. Like tick tick tick tick is something I like. Analog is something I like. Digital is something I like. I do software for life. These are my people. I've done laundry. So it's different. So it's a different ecosystem altogether. And in that, if you are able to get into a good space, for sure you should take that opportunity.

Now we are in 12 months in, when did you start with turns? Like what was the decision to go towards a POS ecosystem and what was that idea for?

Dan Zimmerman (22:58)

well, we were managing the all the washer I fold on pieces of paper. So, I mean, I don't have to explain how that is not great.

Sukanth (23:04)

you

But then

you are a very technology oriented guy, like just asking, why was it not P0 for you? Like when you started off, why didn't you ask them to go digital completely? You went and you probably spent a good amount of money on getting a card system, like you went digitalization on the self self portion. Like why was this also not P0? Just asking, like I'm not questioning in any Turns.

Dan Zimmerman (23:30)

On

this part of your question, you said, why was it what?

Sukanth (23:33)

Why was it not priority zero? Let's whatever business is let's go digital first. Like why did you go through with the idea of seven months or six months where you're writing it down still that process.

Dan Zimmerman (23:43)

⁓ well, I

can tell you I can answer that pretty easily. So the system that we had already set up at the other laundromat that we didn't like, we just, it was just super easy for us to pick up the pieces of paper that we already use at their store because they don't have a laundry management system and just bring it over to ours and run it until we figure out something different. Right. So, I mean, we

Sukanth (23:57)

Mmm.

Dan Zimmerman (24:07)

ran the paper system for a couple of months or so until I started doing demos and talking to you guys and figuring out what we wanted to use to manage our inventory and our washer I fold and need to understand what the tech was capable of.

Sukanth (24:24)

So why ask? That's one of questions because there will be good few options. We are a younger or were a smaller, a lot younger startup. We had just started up. You were already in a card ecosystem where there are some partners which are associated with them which would try and sell in. There are so many things which are happening.

Why did you even choose turns? Like I hope this doesn't open up a can of worms but yeah, why us?

Dan Zimmerman (24:51)

I mean, it was pretty simple. mean, it's two things, right? Like, you have to like the people that you're talking to that are selling the product, right? And then, you know, you have to actually love what the product does. And if it checks all the boxes for what we need, which it did, it's actually does a lot more than what we need. And we're

sophisticated enough where I feel like what we need is somewhat demanding because we have inventory, we have a property management business that we need to integrate a certain way. so that was the other thing. You guys are very flexible about how we built it to work for us. So that was great.

Sukanth (25:28)

Like, yeah.

One of the things that I realized that you, like you are one of the ones which actually started out with wash, dry, fold with commercial. The idea was always commercial. Like that's what every guy's laundromat operator's dream is these days to start off with commercial. So how did you, like how did you train? Like how was the experience for the team? Because they would have also found it new.

It would have been hard few months. Like I'm pretty sure onboarding is different, difficult. How did you pass through that? And like did turn support help you? What was, what we could have done better probably or what we did which was good?

Dan Zimmerman (26:04)

I mean, I don't know what we could have done better. I felt like the onboarding was pretty smooth. I thought it was great. know, onboarding, Keertana that was helping me. I mean, I had her phone number. I could call her.

in the middle of the day and she would pick up and you know we could have a discussion about something I was having trouble with rather than me sending an email and waiting multiple days for an answer. Onboarding itself was structured so it was easy for us to follow and if we didn't check all the boxes on a session we'd figure it out the next session and I don't know it was easy and the team was easy to communicate with and we were able to

tailor it to all of our needs and it was just very simple.

Sukanth (26:45)

So has it made any difference? Has it only digitalized or has it made any actual difference in your laundromat business, management, growth ideas, insights?

Dan Zimmerman (26:59)

We're still making plans because like I said, I think that the software does more than what what we don't use everything in the software right now, right? And so there's some there's some nice features that we don't use right now marketing website The door dash integration some other things some other things, right? so for us like

Sukanth (27:15)

Yes.

Dan Zimmerman (27:20)

Did it make an impact on our business? Yes, like I'm not shuffling around these little pieces of paper. My business partner that manages all of our money can log in and review the inventory, review the receipts, bill customers. She doesn't have to wait for me to go down to the store, pick up all these pieces of paper and bring them back to her. So, it is.

Sukanth (27:26)

Yes, that's true.

Yeah. And there is no searching,

right? Like the papers have no search. That's what I probably, I'm a little younger. So I come from a generation where there was no concept of paper. we always, I always had an idea that there will be a search bar where I type something and the number would come up. it just blows my mind. I feel so incapable that if I had to probably be 50 years.

Dan Zimmerman (27:52)

you

Sukanth (28:05)

Like if I was born 50 years left, I would be so dying man. I would not be able to do papers that well. Like maintaining all of them at every point of time. So, like do you take tips at your laundromat? Like what for attendance did you improve anything? Like I guess a lot of people when they go digital, they are able to map these things except card at their wash, dry, fold stores. Anything of that sort that helped you?

Dan Zimmerman (28:31)

I think I missed the first part of your question, say that one more time.

Sukanth (28:34)

Do you accept tips at your laundromat for your attendants? For the attendants, the idea behind turns was that we know that there is an operator and then there is an attendant. He has to have his time sheets correct when they are coming in, when they're going out. Can they get more tips in? When people come in with cards, you can take card payments and that helps both. The businessman and the person who's at the store because it becomes easier for them to even

Dan Zimmerman (28:41)

Cowboys!

Sukanth (29:00)

probably eye into getting more good service in. So has something changed in that ecosystem?

Dan Zimmerman (29:07)

I don't think so. Maybe I don't pay enough attention to know, but I don't think so.

Sukanth (29:10)

And

what about the card system? Like how has that helped? Like are you full card? No coin?

Dan Zimmerman (29:19)

So no, we accept Google Pay, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, credit card, debit card, and cash. And we have no quarters in our store, which is really nice. you know, we accept cash at the loyalty card terminals.

Sukanth (29:29)

Hmm.

Dan Zimmerman (29:35)

and we have to that up once, twice a week. It's nice because we can monitor how much cash is in those remotely. Before, it was just like, don't know how much cash is down there. I have to go down there and open up the machine and look at it. I don't know how many quarters are out in the laundry machines. You just have to go down to the store to know. But now we can do a lot remotely with both the wash dry fold system, the payment system.

Sukanth (29:48)

Hahaha!

Dan Zimmerman (30:05)

money is in the store, we know how many loyalty cards are in the machines, like very digital, know, and further than that, just in relation to, you know, technology in the store, you know, it used to be that we would have to go down there at six o'clock in the morning every day and unlock the door. But we don't, we don't, we don't do that anymore. Our store unlocks itself, all the lights automatically turn on.

Sukanth (30:22)

Yes.

Dan Zimmerman (30:30)

alarm system disarms itself, the open sign turns itself on. We use all smart switches and technology to program all that. So the store opens itself every day and we have a night person that closes the store down, but when that person...

Sukanth (30:38)

game.

Dan Zimmerman (30:48)

walks out the door at their end time, the door still automatically locks itself, the light still automatically turn off, and the alarm system still automatically arms itself. So we've automated a lot of functions.

Sukanth (31:01)

How much

damage did you get in all of this? Like first of all, like just asking from a question perspective, like did you ever feel that's a lot of cost or A you felt that there has direct ROI like why do you make it that operationally automatic like for yourself or with the idea that this would carry on probably the new guys or if you ever sell this, they would appreciate this.

Dan Zimmerman (31:26)

I mean it was actually pretty low cost to do it. Yeah.

Sukanth (31:29)

Is it? Okay,

I would love to understand the idea like So how much like it just give me a ballpark figure not asking for specific numbers like but

Dan Zimmerman (31:37)

Well, I mean,

so all of the door locks were already electronically controlled, but you would have, there's like timers in the store that you would have to mechanically...

Sukanth (31:44)

Hmm.

Like because I went to a laundromat

yesterday, they were facing all these issues that you're talking about. There was a guy who was closing down everything, everything was manual. I went there at 8.25 so there was a person who told me very clearly that last wash is at 9.30, you have to leave before I, you have to leave so I have to close. So there were things like this which I felt were a bit different or could be improved. So, and I asked them like, why don't you drop some money there? The owner was there randomly.

This is too costly man. Why do you want me to spend more money in?

Dan Zimmerman (32:21)

Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I pay a lot of attention to where I'm spending my time at. I don't want to go down to both of these stores and unlock them every single day at 6 a.m. I got other stuff I need to do. I don't necessarily want to rely.

Sukanth (32:31)

100%.

Dan Zimmerman (32:38)

on someone else to do that either. I mean, if there's a way that we can automate some things like the store opening itself, like a laundromat, like when you first think about it, it sounds like it might be cumbersome, but it's really not. But we.

Sukanth (32:51)

Yeah. It's a good

thing. Like I genuinely because

As a business operator, think one of the things that I've learned, see I came from a middle class background. My fathers and my family all had a job. So once I've started doing business, I've realized that business is collection of individuals. Like usually you are not able to do everything yourself. And you have to find the process, you have to find people, you have to offload. Because if you don't offload, then it's a job and then you're stuck. Like that's my personal opinion. And that's why I love talking to you because when I talk to you, I get that idea that you're already free in mind.

Like you understand that that's how business is. For me it's new. Like a lot of these prospects which we'll be buying in these operations, they come from places where they have enough second income that they can afford this. But they have no concept and idea of how a business is. They think probably you just stand there and collect quarters. That's usually not how it is. You have to trust people. You have to give them, allow them to make mistakes. You have to pay for their mistakes. You have to make your own mistakes.

Dan Zimmerman (33:26)

You

Sukanth (33:53)

And you have to be calm. You can't be angry and probably change things very fast. When I talk to you, see you've invested so much time into that ecosystem. So I understand that, yes, are so many things to learn from. What's the next step? What's next 12 months for Grover Street Wash House?

Dan Zimmerman (33:58)

Yeah.

I'm a month and a half out from opening the largest store in my city right now. So I have a 6,000 square foot store that I'm building right now. I also have two other businesses on the same site that I'm building. So that's the next most exciting thing for me. It was kind of an existing location.

But it was a major remodel project, so we remodeled the whole store and got new roof, new siding, new gutters, new windows, new doors, new floors, new everything.

Sukanth (34:45)

Hmm, yeah, so it's a

big project. So does the original Grover Street wash house take a little backseat like the first two stores? Are they going to be running on autopilot to an extent?

Dan Zimmerman (34:55)

Yeah, I right now I go to my the two stores that we bought initially. I mean at this point the way we have it set up like I don't really go to the stores anymore. go I mean my business partner picks up cash weekly sometimes bi-weekly. The laundry ladies we know we pay them well they know exactly what they're doing.

Our housekeepers know, you know, they've been doing this for the last six years. They know exactly what they're doing. So there just isn't much that needs my attention. We have all brand new equipment. All the equipment doesn't need repairs.

Sukanth (35:26)

Like all

that repairing cost is gone, like it went from 6 to 0. Like these new equipments, they don't break at all. Like I'm just trying to understand because in my opinion, there is some like it always happens, right? Like whenever I've been in a laundromat, the guy is always screwing something.

Dan Zimmerman (35:42)

So

far, mean, so we had some small things like from the manufacturing facility that like you said, like a screw or something, we had a few things that were loose. We had some wire problems, but it was very minimal and we fixed it within the first two weeks of getting the new equipment. And since then, I mean, we did this back in June of last year. So.

We're about 10 months in on our new equipment and month to month we spent $0 on the machine maintenance. We might have some maintenance with the building or the bathroom.

Sukanth (36:18)

Next

I should pay us for this. Like this is probably, yeah, I think you would also, we would also get a sponsorship from them because they are the dark horse. Like I see that they've, it's excellent. So one, one more question, which is probably bubbling inside me is you, you went from a hundred percent cash store to a hundred percent card store. Like

Dan Zimmerman (36:38)

Not a 100 %

card, we still take cash, so...

Sukanth (36:41)

Yeah, not caught like but in that ecosystem that would have been 100 % quarter store to a 100 % quarter less store. Let's let me put it that way not from cash perspective. So no fear like I would have feared man like there are some places where I go to and I visited probably now more than 150 laundromats. 10 to 15 % of the population is always that quarter guys right they just don't move.

Dan Zimmerman (36:48)

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

So I was...

Yeah, yes, I was kind of terrified, but I'll tell you, I mean, I kind of got lucky. My sales rep that was selling me the equipment, there was another operator in another city that was probably 45 minutes away.

and he had, this guy had seven stores and two of them were in my market and he had changed over all of his stores to this new system. So I asked him the same questions, like, man, didn't you get scared like going from quarters and cash to no quarters and loyalty card system? Like people figuring out the card system, customers, know, not.

being used to starting the machine with a loyalty card versus quarters. And he said, yes. He's like, but I did it at one store and it worked so well that I just did it at all seven stores immediately. And we, I mean, I used the machine. I got to touch it. I got to feel it. I got to see it in the store. I got to hear this guy's opinion. Who's being completely honest with me. And he's got eight stores. I mean, he's got, you know,

Sukanth (37:57)

Yes?

Dan Zimmerman (38:20)

10, 15 years more experience than I do. I have my big...

Sukanth (38:23)

Yeah, and yeah, that's

what I realized is like and this is my personal opinion and I am again not affiliated to anyone. It makes the life so easy for an operator that a lot of like it's just so easy it like the idea of collecting coins, which is a full time chore. You have to make sure that the laundromat is completely vandalized proof because there is quarters going in. There is so much

pain in that ecosystem that that a card system sounds like a slice through heaven but like as a op as a consumer like i would talk from a consumer point of view i think this is too operator centric it's it's painful man i have like 10 laundry cards in my in my in my in my bag and yeah sometimes it is painful but

Dan Zimmerman (38:57)

It is! It is!

Sukanth (39:17)

Again, I realised this that there are views for everyone. Like this is a good market which I realised that for example one of our operators moved on to like the parent's equipment from and there was another guy who was doing full card.

and he told me that both of their businesses are growing which is very fun like which is very different for me because he said some people who didn't like it came to me and some people who wanted to go to a very high-end card store they are getting to go to a very high-end card store like those people would never come to me I am a flimsy location it's not that sexy it's built for the idea of the second guy so I'm happy like

What all like do you worry about competitors at all like is that in your nature because what you've set up is pretty much single-handedly like you would you don't even talk about competitors at all like I've never heard it

Dan Zimmerman (40:09)

I don't worry about too much with these stores. I just don't worry about that much really. Like from where we're at right now, the people that we have in place, the camera systems that we got, the technology that we have there, I mean there really isn't much for me to worry about.

Sukanth (40:24)

No, but

like the other question, do you want to grow and probably take over their share? is that does that ever come to your mind or is that possible in your ecosystem?

Dan Zimmerman (40:31)

Thank

Take over what?

Sukanth (40:36)

Like take over their market share. Like if you are the better one then you should continuously keep growing.

Dan Zimmerman (40:42)

I don't know. I don't know. I'm still relatively new to the laundry business. I kind of came in. I came in in a hurry. I learned a lot quickly. I'm building the biggest store in our market right now.

Sukanth (40:44)

Hmm.

You have three stores now.

Yeah, they'll come to your store and ask

you for questions and suggestions now. You're the seven store old guy now. You have to answer these questions to people now.

Dan Zimmerman (41:08)

Yeah, I don't mind sharing information. I think there's enough for everybody. I'm not too worried about competition or somebody taking my ideas and making it their own. mean, it's...

Sukanth (41:17)

Really?

I've learned that I give,

in general, every idea that we can think of is written already. People just don't do it, or they don't do it well. There are usually the two scenarios. I asked this question also because I was searching for Grover Street wash house across the internet. I just see so many opportunities that you could grow there. But then I thought that you probably are already making money, so you don't want to grow that ecosystem side. So just trying to understand, is that something that you would like to grow?

somebody

searches for laundromat near me, do you think that helps?

Dan Zimmerman (41:50)

So the

answer is yes. I know that there's a lot more that I could do, especially with the features that are available to me from Turns, the website and spending more money on some marketing and creating.

Sukanth (42:03)

Like

do you genuinely believe it would help? Like first question, like do you think it will actually turn to revenue or just vanity? Like but do you, what do you feel? Like I don't know, like we don't know the answer, but what do you feel? Like would it be like, do you think it would grow? Like in your market, like what do restaurants and you're in real estate, what tricks have you seen of the trade? Like you would try, not me. I am a tech guy. I think that way, which is very non-

only laundromat. Laundromats are a horizontal property. from your real estate tricks, what would you do?

Dan Zimmerman (42:32)

Yeah, I think

all the upside of our business from here is spending more time on the wash dry fold business and getting larger commercial accounts that make money. I pitched to some local restaurant groups because I have some friends that own some restaurant groups locally.

And the commercial wash, dry, vendors that they're using now, their prices are very low and very hard. It's hard to compete.

Sukanth (43:01)

Yeah man, Cintas is the best, like the idea is that, yes.

But then the idea is are they happy with them? Like the usual answer is that it's very low and they feel shit about it, like both at the same time.

Dan Zimmerman (43:16)

So the answer is yes, I mean they are happy with them, but they were looking at what they were spending and they kind of told me what they were spending and I was like, okay, well, you know, they spend $100,000 a year on laundry and then I quoted all of it out and like what they needed and like they're doing a ton of laundry like and I just couldn't compete with the price that they were being offered.

Sukanth (43:26)

You

I think they became the enterprise account. $100,000 worth of laundry man. Yes. I'm pretty sure the Cintas rep would have quoted them the best numbers. But what I've realized, and again, this is not anti-Cintas. I love them too. The idea is that...

Most of the my operators who have done commercial contracts have usually broken in through that area because they're always very cheap but people feel that their linens are not cared for sometimes they get washed out very fast the quality of linen that sometimes they're offering is not the best they're very very inflexible once they start like then you can't make much changes so yeah

Dan Zimmerman (44:14)

Yeah. I

think part of that is the people that you have working in your organization and the products that you use. mean, we have good people. we, try to use very good products, because with, mean, with our linens, I mean, these are linens that go on beds that people sleep in.

Sukanth (44:32)

Yep.

Dan Zimmerman (44:33)

And

so we can't use, you know, scented soaps or cheap soaps. you know, we have to be real careful about the products that we use because people, their skin can get irritated and that kind some people are sensitive to cheap laundry products. So we have to.

Sukanth (44:44)

Yes.

Dan Zimmerman (44:49)

Be careful there, it crosses with what you're talking about on other commercial accounts. People getting good service, but their linens getting washed out or just using not great products on them.

Sukanth (45:02)

Like yeah you're the guy who would have probably given out a $60,000 contract man like you're the sinthas guy like if you would look from a short term rental property ecosystem this is this is you are their bread and butter so you first stopped your account and now you're gonna stop their accounts too and I genuinely want because yes my and it's I

Dan Zimmerman (45:18)

Yeah.

Sukanth (45:24)

What is your idea about the laundromat industry? it growing? Like what do you see in and around Nebraska, in and around your area? What do you see? Action coming in? Do you get cold caught? Do you want to say? I don't.

Dan Zimmerman (45:35)

I don't have my

finger on the pulse of the industry on the rate of growth. I I can just look at the numbers of our stores and that's about all I know. I don't go to the big laundry conventions. I do get in the laundry groups. see that laundromats in general right now are super popular. Everybody thinks that... Yeah, I mean...

Sukanth (45:58)

TikTok is making it very popular man.

Dan Zimmerman (46:01)

Everyone thinks

it's a very passive business. It's completely untrue until you start putting a lot of money and automation things into the stores like I've done. mean, mine are pretty passive. And now...

Sukanth (46:15)

Now, now, like

after 16 months, yes now. So what would be like one last suggestion, like one parting thought that you would give to two people, existing operators or new prospects?

Dan Zimmerman (46:18)

Yeah, but you

What are pieces of like a

Sukanth (46:30)

like a

wisdom like you would say now after 16 months and third would be us like what would you give us the suggestion for what we should do

Dan Zimmerman (46:35)

Well,

okay, well, there's three things there. think existing operators, I think that a lot of existing operators, I don't care if you're young or old or where you're at, but I mean, you need to know what technology is out there now, know, turn turns these card systems, you know, the laundry machines, you know, a lot of these older operators that have everything paid off.

Sukanth (46:52)

Yes.

Dan Zimmerman (47:01)

They don't necessarily want to spend money on new stuff, but there's some, mean, the features that you can get in your stores now are so nice. And I mean, the automation stuff that I've talked about, both software and, you know, the smart switches in our stores and all these things. Like if you think about how much time you're spending at your store and just figure out how to spend less time there and make the same money or more, right? So I think that's my wisdom for.

Sukanth (47:25)

Like a lot of people

would even make the exchange less money for less time. Like I'll be very honest, like a lot of people would actually make that exchange too. And for prospects, the new guys coming in who are being fleeced, like a lot of them are being given laundromats worth millions of dollars in the first place. What should they do?

Dan Zimmerman (47:43)

I think that the new guys, I don't know, there's a lot of them out there. Everybody wants a laundromat. I don't know what advice I can give them. I know that they're probably looking for two things. They're looking for a good deal, obviously. And they're looking for, you know, a lot of guys want to figure out how to buy a laundromat with, you know, as little money as possible. you know, they're

Sukanth (48:05)

You

Dan Zimmerman (48:06)

Right? Well, that's I

mean, it's all of us. We want to spend the least amount of our own money as possible. We want to use other people's money, whether it be a bank or owner finance or what have you. But I think finding a good off market deal that can be owner financed and negotiated to make everybody happy is going to be the cheapest and best way for new people to get into the laundry industry. And, you know, as as you know, there's just a lot of baby boomer generation guys and girls that

or women that own laundromats now that are getting out of it. So there's a huge opportunity to buy laundromats right now, which is also why it's popular.

Sukanth (48:43)

I would track, like in the city I in, am in Portland right now, I would say 20 % of Portland laundromats are worth buying. Like they are very poorly kept, half of the machines are broken, reviews are full. I like the idea when somebody has low reviews and a lot of them, that means that that place has business and if you replace the owner that would make money. So you are probably looking at the shittiest stores to buy and that's a good deal.

Buying a good looking, sexy store may not be the best deal. That's my opinion. That's how I come across it.

Dan Zimmerman (49:17)

I

think, yeah, I agree with you. think part of it, there's a, there's a nice medium there though. You find a store that's, you know, it looks like it's got worn out equipment and might need updated.

but has a good consistent customer base, right? That's the important part. You got the customer base that's been there for years and years and years. so if you were able to retool the store with new equipment and fire up a wash, dry, fold service, you would probably gain a lot of new customers and your existing customer base would go, they would stay right there with you. They would love it.

Sukanth (49:31)

Yes.

Yes.

I have like, I and finally for us, like what would you, what would you want turns to go forward ahead with? Like, I know you don't use all of the features as you mentioned, but what I could make, like what we could do probably even the existing ones that you do that could probably make a difference and that's for us to learn.

Dan Zimmerman (50:11)

I wish I had more time to think about that question.

Sukanth (50:14)

no problems. I am pretty sure once I release this and now I don't know why I even get queries like hey can you tell me whether to buy this laundromat or not if you allow me I'll put your I'll put your email at the bottom they could connect with you I am pretty sure there will be people who'll ask me to get you back because

Everybody loves people who give them real life. As you said, the guy had eight stores. If he did not have money in, I don't think so you would have put that money in there. And people like conviction.

Dan Zimmerman (50:42)

I

was, I mean, you can only trust so much information from the salesman, right? They just want to sell you something. So it's like when you talk to another operator and I'm looking right at the product and I can touch it, I can use it and he's vouched it for it. And he's, could just tell he was just being completely honest with me. He's just being a nice guy. It was great.

Sukanth (50:48)

Yes?

And would you recommend turns for other people? What would you suggest? What should they do?

Dan Zimmerman (51:04)

yes, I would. do recommend turns to other people. and I would

Sukanth (51:09)

Where would they help?

Which guy do you think would be helped the most? In your opinion, if an operator is listening, which operator should reach out to us?

Dan Zimmerman (51:13)

Yeah.

So I mean for me, like the part of Turns that we don't have experience with is obviously the website, facilitating online orders and facilitating like the, you know, the DoorDash integration, pickup and delivery system. So.

I'm really curious about that. think that it's kind of a big miss at a lot of laundromats right now because they struggle to manage wash, dry, fold on their own.

I think that...

Turns has a product that can really automate a lot of that, right? So I mean, in theory, like you don't have to own delivery trucks. You don't have to maintain those trucks. You don't have to maintain the drivers. You just needed to figure out how to do laundry and that's not hard.

Sukanth (51:59)

Yeah, that's like that's

hard in itself. By the way, I don't know why did you just add that in? But yes, like and yes would love I love talking to you then.

Dan Zimmerman (52:04)

Yeah.

Sukanth (52:10)

Like I think next time when I come there, I would probably be visiting your facility. So that thing passes on that Dexter guys also get to see that hey, where they put in their machines and would love to understand Nebraska's market, understand what you are, where you are and track your progress and tell it to other people how to learn. Thanks Dan. Thanks for being so open.

Dan Zimmerman (52:14)

Yeah!

Yeah,

I be happy to meet with you if you come to my town here. We'll show you the stores, we'll have a beer, I'll show you around. Maybe we'll buy a store.

Sukanth (52:36)

100%.

100 %

I am sure you are going to get lot of beer offers very soon but then awesome Dan thanks for talking to us thanks for taking us through the journey next time we will even ask more pointed questions because I will realise that I genuinely want to understand why somebody does something because for me like I when I am sitting here laundromat operators are like

serious business people pulling million dollars like you put almost a million dollars into both the properties and after 12 months in that's all that's a start move and these are moves which you want to die you want to talk to such people yes let's go and yeah yeah that's what you want to talk to

Dan Zimmerman (53:09)

Yeah. Yeah. And you know,

I'm

Yeah, it's really exciting. I'm building this new store. I've had four different people within the last three months ask me if I need any investors, if I need any more money, if I need money. They're like, can we invest money into your new store? I'm like, man, I need to figure out how to take that money and say yes to that.

Sukanth (53:43)

Yeah, I think this is something I probably see 15 years into the future and I think you're a real estate guy so you would probably correct me. There are a lot of fractional property investing, right, which happens now in America and this was not the case probably 20 years ago.

Dan Zimmerman (53:58)

Right.

we do that some of that stuff now. Like we put together projects, we raise capital, we buy apartment buildings, we do other things besides laundry. it kind of, but it's the same concept and on the real estate side.

Sukanth (54:11)

I think that will go

towards that. think people would put because this is what passive is. You put money into the laundromat, there is an operator, he takes a chunk, you take a smaller chunk and if the business sells, it sells and everybody gets that dividend and that money in.

Dan Zimmerman (54:24)

Yeah, well, yeah.

Sukanth (54:26)

Awesome.

Thanks Dan. See you soon. See you soon again. Enjoy the day. Bye.

Dan Zimmerman (54:30)

Take care. You

as well. Take care.

‍

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En este episodio inspirador, Dan Zimmerman comparte su transición del sector inmobiliario y la gestión de alquileres temporales al negocio de lavanderías. Todo comenzó cuando enfrentaba ineficiencias operativas para manejar la ropa sucia de sus más de 40 propiedades de alquiler. La solución: comprar dos lavanderías y asumir el control del proceso.

Dan relata cómo pasó de administrar tiendas antiguas, con máquinas de más de 20 años y manejo exclusivo en efectivo, a transformar sus lavanderías en negocios modernos, eficientes y digitalizados. Con la ayuda del software Turns y un sistema de tarjetas de fidelidad, eliminó las monedas, automatizó procesos como la apertura de puertas y redujo los costos de mantenimiento de $6,000 al mes a casi cero.

Explica por qué eligió las máquinas Dexter, después de visitar su fábrica, y destaca la importancia de tener un buen equipo humano. También comenta cómo Turns facilitó la digitalización del servicio de lavado por encargo (wash-dry-fold), permitiendo una gestión más eficiente y profesional.

Dan recomienda a los operadores actuales adoptar tecnología para ganar tiempo y eficiencia, y aconseja a los nuevos compradores buscar acuerdos fuera del mercado y opciones de financiamiento directo. Actualmente, construye su tercera lavandería, de 6,000 pies cuadrados, consolidando su visión de un negocio automatizado, rentable y preparado para el futuro.

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